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Private CPAN directory

Vicki Brown
The page at  http://foswiki.org/Support.HowToInstallCpanModules has good information on installing CPAN modules if the user doesn't have admin privileges on the server ... but what if the user doesn't have shell access? (Many hosting services don;t provide this or the user doesn't want it).

Given that a Foswiki distribution comes with a lib/CPAN/lib directory...
If a user chooses to install an extension that needs additional Perl modules, e.g. CalendarPlugin, is Foswiki "smart enough" to install those modules into foswiki/lib/CPAN/lib?

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Re: Private CPAN directory

Oliver Krüger-2

> Given that a Foswiki distribution comes with a lib/CPAN/lib directory...
> If a user chooses to install an extension that needs additional Perl modules, e.g. CalendarPlugin, is Foswiki "smart enough" to install those modules into foswiki/lib/CPAN/lib?

Nope. Currently Foswiki just warns about missing deps, if the deps are listed in the plugins DEPENDENCIES file.
I'm not sure if it makes sense to reinvent CPAN. Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?

As a plugin author you can always ship dependencies with your plugin, but I haven't seen that before.

Oliver


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Re: Private CPAN directory

George Clark-2
On 04/22/2014 06:50 PM, Oliver Krüger wrote:

      
Given that a Foswiki distribution comes with a lib/CPAN/lib directory...
If a user chooses to install an extension that needs additional Perl modules, e.g. CalendarPlugin, is Foswiki "smart enough" to install those modules into foswiki/lib/CPAN/lib?
Nope. Currently Foswiki just warns about missing deps, if the deps are listed in the plugins DEPENDENCIES file.
I'm not sure if it makes sense to reinvent CPAN. Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?

As a plugin author you can always ship dependencies with your plugin, but I haven't seen that before.

Oliver
Hi Oliver,

Some extensions do ship CPAN dependencies in lib/CPAN, 

 - PatchFoswikiContrib   ships Text::Diff and Text::Patch
 - FilterPlugin just added some CPAN files
 - ...  There are around 10 extension in SVN that provide lib/CPAN/lib.  

However with Foswiki 1.2, I believe the plan is to eliminate (or nearly eliminate) lib/CPAN/lib.   The 1.2 plan is to only ship dependencies that are required for Configure to run, and install extensions.  There will be a separate CPAN contrib that can provide dependencies for sites that can't install them directly with CPAN. 

See http://foswiki.org/Development/MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib

And that reminds me,  Neither Text::Diff or Text::Patch are in the core dependencies,  but are needed for the Patch*Contrib's to install correctly.  I need to update the deps.

George

      

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Re: Private CPAN directory

Vicki Brown
In reply to this post by Oliver Krüger-2
> Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?

Um... you don't _know_ that CPAN modules bring in their own dependencies all the time???

-- Vicki
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On Apr 22, 2014, at 15:50 , Oliver Krüger <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> Given that a Foswiki distribution comes with a lib/CPAN/lib directory...
>> If a user chooses to install an extension that needs additional Perl modules, e.g. CalendarPlugin, is Foswiki "smart enough" to install those modules into foswiki/lib/CPAN/lib?
>
> Nope. Currently Foswiki just warns about missing deps, if the deps are listed in the plugins DEPENDENCIES file.
> I'm not sure if it makes sense to reinvent CPAN. Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?
>
> As a plugin author you can always ship dependencies with your plugin, but I haven't seen that before.
>
> Oliver
>
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Re: Private CPAN directory

Vicki Brown
In reply to this post by George Clark-2
There will be a separate CPAN contrib that can provide dependencies for sites that can't install them directly with CPAN.  

Whatever is most convenient, as long as there is something to support users who run Foswiki on web-hosting servers  and can't have access to the server's Perl lib directory (and are unlikely to have access to a shell either, or want one).

I've worked with two wiki clients now and a third friend who uses a web-hosting site. These places all have a fancy "file manager" front end (a common one is called CPanel) that allows uploading, unpacking archives, moving files around, renaming files, changing permissions, and editing files through the GUI. But they don't allow shell cli commands and many people wouldn't know what to do with shell access if they got it. (And many of these sites make getting shell access complex. I got shell access to help one client and it required jumping through several ssh hoops and sending them my IP address.) IT was complicated and difficult and I've been using a Unix shell since 1983!


On Apr 22, 2014, at 16:31 , George Clark <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 04/22/2014 06:50 PM, Oliver Krüger wrote:

      
Given that a Foswiki distribution comes with a lib/CPAN/lib directory...
If a user chooses to install an extension that needs additional Perl modules, e.g. CalendarPlugin, is Foswiki "smart enough" to install those modules into foswiki/lib/CPAN/lib?
Nope. Currently Foswiki just warns about missing deps, if the deps are listed in the plugins DEPENDENCIES file.
I'm not sure if it makes sense to reinvent CPAN. Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?

As a plugin author you can always ship dependencies with your plugin, but I haven't seen that before.

Oliver
Hi Oliver,

Some extensions do ship CPAN dependencies in lib/CPAN, 

 - PatchFoswikiContrib   ships Text::Diff and Text::Patch
 - FilterPlugin just added some CPAN files
 - ...  There are around 10 extension in SVN that provide lib/CPAN/lib.  

However with Foswiki 1.2, I believe the plan is to eliminate (or nearly eliminate) lib/CPAN/lib.   The 1.2 plan is to only ship dependencies that are required for Configure to run, and install extensions.  There will be a separate CPAN contrib that can provide dependencies for sites that can't install them directly with CPAN. 

See http://foswiki.org/Development/MoveCPANLibToSeparateContrib

And that reminds me,  Neither Text::Diff or Text::Patch are in the core dependencies,  but are needed for the Patch*Contrib's to install correctly.  I need to update the deps.

George

      

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Re: Private CPAN directory

Oliver Krüger-2
In reply to this post by Vicki Brown

>> Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?
> Um... you don't _know_ that CPAN modules bring in their own dependencies all the time???

Ok, that was a bit ambiguous. What I meant and what I don't know is, whether there is an Perl API to trigger a module installation. :)

Oliver


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Re: Private CPAN directory

Olivier Raginel
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:18:34AM +0200, Oliver Krüger wrote:
>
> >> Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?
> > Um... you don't _know_ that CPAN modules bring in their own dependencies all the time???
>
> Ok, that was a bit ambiguous. What I meant and what I don't know is,
> whether there is an Perl API to trigger a module installation. :)

Disclaimer: didn't read the all thread.
But there used to be CpanInstallerContrib from Will Norris. I remember
discussing with him doing everything from the web, and we both agreed it
felt really scary security-wise. Wouldn't be too hard to extend it
though.

And Oliver, I still have no idea what you meant. CPAN is perl, so of
course there is a Perl API to trigger a module installation. It's all in
the CPAN module. But again, not sure it's advisable. I understand it
would ease the installation greatly, but it's a wide-open gap for remote
privilege execution and such.

--
Babar

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Re: Private CPAN directory

Vicki Brown
>  but it's a wide-open gap for remote
>
> privilege execution and such.

Tun from configure and only configure, from the "Install new extensions" section and only from there.

I don't think that's a "wide-open gap".

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On Apr 26, 2014, at 11:47 , Olivier Raginel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:18:34AM +0200, Oliver Krüger wrote:
>>
>>>> Are there CPAN modules which can install other CPAN modules?
>>> Um... you don't _know_ that CPAN modules bring in their own dependencies all the time???
>>
>> Ok, that was a bit ambiguous. What I meant and what I don't know is,
>> whether there is an Perl API to trigger a module installation. :)
>
> Disclaimer: didn't read the all thread.
> But there used to be CpanInstallerContrib from Will Norris. I remember
> discussing with him doing everything from the web, and we both agreed it
> felt really scary security-wise. Wouldn't be too hard to extend it
> though.
>
> And Oliver, I still have no idea what you meant. CPAN is perl, so of
> course there is a Perl API to trigger a module installation. It's all in
> the CPAN module. But again, not sure it's advisable. I understand it
> would ease the installation greatly, but it's a wide-open gap for remote
> privilege execution and such.
>
> --
> Babar
>
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Re: Private CPAN directory

Oliver Krüger-2
In reply to this post by Olivier Raginel
>> Ok, that was a bit ambiguous. What I meant and what I don't know is,
>> whether there is an Perl API to trigger a module installation. :)
>
> But there used to be CpanInstallerContrib from Will Norris. I remember
> discussing with him doing everything from the web, and we both agreed it
> felt really scary security-wise. Wouldn't be too hard to extend it
> though.

At FoswikiCamp Crawford and I decided to move Will's work from 2010 under /scratch in svn. We took the CpanContrib namespace to optionally ship cpan deps which will be stripped off the core in the next release.


> And Oliver, I still have no idea what you meant. CPAN is perl, so of
> course there is a Perl API to trigger a module installation. It's all in
> the CPAN module.

I never looked into the internals of CPAN (or any other distribution framework). I learned from your posting that it is made of Perl. :)

Oliver


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Re: Private CPAN directory

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