Re: Support for Microbrowsers like Blackberry etc

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Re: Support for Microbrowsers like Blackberry etc

Neil Good
Hello all,

Working in  Blackberry rich environment at my current work and contemplating my future (i.e. can I make a living at foswiki stuff), I would some sort of means of dealing with a Blackberry type micro browser is a must.  Almost have it a special include or tag or something.  Most execs do not read essays anyway and read even less on a Blackberry so you could have a reasonably full web page when viewed on a normal browser and say just the I Approve button a few other bits on the Microbrowser version.  It should be easy to tag the content that appears in the micro browser and the rest would not be sent by default then the page builder is in control of the appearance on the microbrowser. The other thing is to provide some crude simulation of the microbrowser in a normal browser so people putting pages together can view it easily in both modes to get a rough idea (rather than installing some special microbrowser software - again, to keep the corporate IT un-sophisticates at bay) - I presume this has been cracked in CSS land.

We should make a start as the corporate world I live in asks for Blackberry support and this would push foswiki forward if there was a simple way for simpletons like me to provide something simple like "I Approve", "Do It" buttons and the like.  Some experience would quickly shape the direction....just a pity I cannot walk with this stuff yet never mind do Harry Potter style tricks like you guys.....

Many thanks,

Neil Good
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On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:34 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

  1. Twitter-Plugin? (Sven Arweiler)
  2. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Crawford Currie)
  3. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Martin Seibert)
  4. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Raymond Lutz)
  5. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Will Norris)
  6. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Drew Stevenson)
  7. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Raymond Lutz)

Started from:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:19:26 -0500
From: Drew Stevenson <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Twitter-Plugin?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

I think idea was you get a tweet noting an update to your foswiki and
go look at the page in your phone. In which case a mobile-device
friendly skin would be a win.

-Drew

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:33:57 -0700
From: Raymond Lutz <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Twitter-Plugin?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Sure, you send the twit. But there is also the issue with micro-browser
compatibility. More and more these days, people are not only getting SMS
messageson their phones. They are also reading content on sites using
them, and the design of the site must be thought about to keep from
drowning in left-bar crap, for example. PatternSkin is terrible on a
Blackberry. More than that, we need to have a means to switch between
these skins based on what type of Browser is encountered.

Sure, twit has link in it that says "I'm updated, come and read me." But
then if the twitter subscriber browses to the link using their phone,
they need to be able to read it in a VERY SIMPLE html format with
embedded images, but eliminating the navigation bars that make the user
need to scroll down to the content, no embedded video, no javascript,
etc. (probably). I tried to read a conventional pattern-skin site with a
Blackberry and it is virtually impossible. These skins must be swapped
in and out automatically, and this should be transparent to any desktop
(fully capable) browser.

Is this already possible? If so, I want it enabled so anyone with
Blackberry type browser can enjoy the site too, even if twitter is not
supported. But if twitter is supported, it only makes the case even
stronger, I would think.

--Raymond

Will Norris wrote:
> do you really want to send them an alert to go to the site to read a
> (at most) 140 character message?  that seems like useless excise.  why
> not simply send them the twit (or whatever) itself?
>
> will
>
>
> On 4/20/09, Raymond Lutz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps also important, and related, is a phone-browser skin which can
>> automatically be used when a microbrowser like one on a Blackberry is
>> viewing the site. Once people get a twitter alert, will they be able to
>> open the page on their phone and read it?
>>
>> Sven Arweiler wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> recently I had the idea to develop a Twitter plugin for Foswiki.
>>>
>>> In case some of you don't know Twitter: It's a micro-blogging service
>>> where you can leave short messages (up to 140 chars) describing what you
>>> are doing right now, or just links to stuff on the net you stumbled upon.
>>>
>>> It's mainly used by individuals but companies begin to use it, too. It's
>>> located at http://www.twitter.com/
>>>
>>> I'd like to include the following features into a TwitterPlugin for a
>>> start:
>>> - Integration of the most recent messages from a Twitter account via tag.
>>>
>>> Like this, Twitter could be easily integrated any place in the wiki where
>>>
>>> it is desired.
>>> - Possibility to post Twitter messages for members of a certain group
>>> (e.g. AdminGroup).
>>>
>>> I'd be happy to hear more feature requests or comments from you
>>> considering a TwitterPlugin for Foswiki.
>>>
>>> Sven
>>>
>>>


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Re: Support for Microbrowsers like Blackberry etc

Kenneth Lavrsen
I can see that many pro websites like most Danish news paper websites,
Radio Denmark and other now have a mobile.name.dk domain where a much
simpler version of the page is shown.

And you are automatically redirected there when you access with certain
agents. So when I view with my iPod Touch I get this version. Some have
a link to the full version in case you really want that.

What I think Foswiki needs is a simple feature where the skin can be set
by a match in the agent string. Ie. when I access with the special
Safari version from an iPod Touch/iPhone, mobile opera browser like most
smart phones use or from a Blackberry the skins is automatically set.

And then we can start designing nice simple skins for the phone.

In the core code all we need to provide is this skin setting feature. I
will create a feature proposal for this.

And then leave it to the skin guys to come up with a skin or two. It
will be easy to make a mobile skin because it will only contain the most
needed features. View and an edit button. No printing, No history. No
Left bar. etc.

Kenneth

Neil Good wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Working in  Blackberry rich environment at my current work and
> contemplating my future (i.e. can I make a living at foswiki stuff), I
> would some sort of means of dealing with a Blackberry type micro
> browser is a must.  Almost have it a special include or tag or
> something.  Most execs do not read essays anyway and read even less on
> a Blackberry so you could have a reasonably full web page when viewed
> on a normal browser and say just the I Approve button a few other bits
> on the Microbrowser version.  It should be easy to tag the content
> that appears in the micro browser and the rest would not be sent by
> default then the page builder is in control of the appearance on the
> microbrowser. The other thing is to provide some crude simulation of
> the microbrowser in a normal browser so people putting pages together
> can view it easily in both modes to get a rough idea (rather than
> installing some special microbrowser software - again, to keep the
> corporate IT un-sophisticates at bay) - I presume this has been
> cracked in CSS land.
>
> We should make a start as the corporate world I live in asks for
> Blackberry support and this would push foswiki forward if there was a
> simple way for simpletons like me to provide something simple like "I
> Approve", "Do It" buttons and the like.  Some experience would quickly
> shape the direction....just a pity I cannot walk with this stuff yet
> never mind do Harry Potter style tricks like you guys.....
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Neil Good
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:34 PM,
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Send Foswiki-discuss mailing list submissions to
>            [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>            https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>            [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>     You can reach the person managing the list at
>            [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>     than "Re: Contents of Foswiki-discuss digest..."
>
>
>     Today's Topics:
>
>       1. Twitter-Plugin? (Sven Arweiler)
>       2. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Crawford Currie)
>       3. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Martin Seibert)
>       4. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Raymond Lutz)
>       5. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Will Norris)
>       6. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Drew Stevenson)
>       7. Re: Twitter-Plugin? (Raymond Lutz)
>
>     Started from:
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Message: 6
>     Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:19:26 -0500
>     From: Drew Stevenson <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Twitter-Plugin?
>     To: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     Message-ID: <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>     I think idea was you get a tweet noting an update to your foswiki and
>     go look at the page in your phone. In which case a mobile-device
>     friendly skin would be a win.
>
>     -Drew
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 7
>     Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:33:57 -0700
>     From: Raymond Lutz <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Twitter-Plugin?
>     To: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     Message-ID: <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>     Sure, you send the twit. But there is also the issue with
>     micro-browser
>     compatibility. More and more these days, people are not only
>     getting SMS
>     messageson their phones. They are also reading content on sites using
>     them, and the design of the site must be thought about to keep from
>     drowning in left-bar crap, for example. PatternSkin is terrible on a
>     Blackberry. More than that, we need to have a means to switch between
>     these skins based on what type of Browser is encountered.
>
>     Sure, twit has link in it that says "I'm updated, come and read
>     me." But
>     then if the twitter subscriber browses to the link using their phone,
>     they need to be able to read it in a VERY SIMPLE html format with
>     embedded images, but eliminating the navigation bars that make the
>     user
>     need to scroll down to the content, no embedded video, no javascript,
>     etc. (probably). I tried to read a conventional pattern-skin site
>     with a
>     Blackberry and it is virtually impossible. These skins must be swapped
>     in and out automatically, and this should be transparent to any
>     desktop
>     (fully capable) browser.
>
>     Is this already possible? If so, I want it enabled so anyone with
>     Blackberry type browser can enjoy the site too, even if twitter is not
>     supported. But if twitter is supported, it only makes the case even
>     stronger, I would think.
>
>     --Raymond
>
>     Will Norris wrote:
>     > do you really want to send them an alert to go to the site to read a
>     > (at most) 140 character message?  that seems like useless
>     excise.  why
>     > not simply send them the twit (or whatever) itself?
>     >
>     > will
>     >
>     >
>     > On 4/20/09, Raymond Lutz <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Perhaps also important, and related, is a phone-browser skin
>     which can
>     >> automatically be used when a microbrowser like one on a
>     Blackberry is
>     >> viewing the site. Once people get a twitter alert, will they be
>     able to
>     >> open the page on their phone and read it?
>     >>
>     >> Sven Arweiler wrote:
>     >>
>     >>> Hi all,
>     >>>
>     >>> recently I had the idea to develop a Twitter plugin for Foswiki.
>     >>>
>     >>> In case some of you don't know Twitter: It's a micro-blogging
>     service
>     >>> where you can leave short messages (up to 140 chars)
>     describing what you
>     >>> are doing right now, or just links to stuff on the net you
>     stumbled upon.
>     >>>
>     >>> It's mainly used by individuals but companies begin to use it,
>     too. It's
>     >>> located at http://www.twitter.com/
>     >>>
>     >>> I'd like to include the following features into a
>     TwitterPlugin for a
>     >>> start:
>     >>> - Integration of the most recent messages from a Twitter
>     account via tag.
>     >>>
>     >>> Like this, Twitter could be easily integrated any place in the
>     wiki where
>     >>>
>     >>> it is desired.
>     >>> - Possibility to post Twitter messages for members of a
>     certain group
>     >>> (e.g. AdminGroup).
>     >>>
>     >>> I'd be happy to hear more feature requests or comments from you
>     >>> considering a TwitterPlugin for Foswiki.
>     >>>
>     >>> Sven
>     >>>
>     >>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>  


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Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Lennon, Padraig
Hi everyone,

I know this is somewhat off topic but I was just wondering what types of
branding people use to refer to their Foswiki installation within an
organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
that this should be hidden from the user. We have a (TM)Wiki
installation here at work (which I am currently migrating to Foswiki)
and it is at the moment being used as a sort of CMDB, but we would like
to expand its usage in future. I have placed a topic on the Wiki where
people can suggest a name.. This came up with suggestions like syswiki,
pwiki (for Pioneer Wiki which is the name of the company) but I would
not like to ringfence the name to refer only to its current usage but
provide scope for future (as yet unknown) purposes..

Was just wondering how people approached this?


regards,

Padraig Lennon
Senior Systems Integration Engineer

Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
Ireland.
Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111

[hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com

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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Crawford Currie
Lennon, Padraig wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I know this is somewhat off topic but I was just wondering what types of
> branding people use to refer to their Foswiki installation within an
> organization.
Depends on many things; the culture of the organisation, how you use the
wiki, how technically able the audience is. There's nothing wrong with
the term "wiki" if people understand it, otherwise here are some other
terms I have seen used to describe the way people use their wikis:

scratchpad
work space / project space
document manager
design folio
wwww (writable world-wide web)
organiser
process platform
portal (foswiki is often used to integrate content from other systems)
social web

C.

--
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- C-Dot Consultants http://c-dot.co.uk
- A WikiRing Partner http://wikiring.com
- landline: +44-1606-330-242
- mobile: +44-7837-877-956
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Martin Seibert
In reply to this post by Lennon, Padraig
Hi Lennon,

I do not think, that this is off-topic. I believe, that marketing your  
corporate wiki internally is an important part of its success. Most of  
our clients name the wiki "Company Wiki". Some rather want it to be  
the intranet and name it like that. Others try to avoid the name wiki  
altogether. And again others try to insert a resemblance to Wikipedia,  
which I personally do not support.

I would love to hear from others. How is the name of your wiki?

Viele Grüße

Martin Seibert
//SEIBERT/MEDIA/CONSULTING

//SEIBERT/MEDIA GmbH / Rheingau Palais
   Söhnleinstraße 8 / 65201 Wiesbaden
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Am 21.04.2009 um 09:19 schrieb Lennon, Padraig:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I know this is somewhat off topic but I was just wondering what  
> types of
> branding people use to refer to their Foswiki installation within an
> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
> that this should be hidden from the user. We have a (TM)Wiki
> installation here at work (which I am currently migrating to Foswiki)
> and it is at the moment being used as a sort of CMDB, but we would  
> like
> to expand its usage in future. I have placed a topic on the Wiki where
> people can suggest a name.. This came up with suggestions like  
> syswiki,
> pwiki (for Pioneer Wiki which is the name of the company) but I would
> not like to ringfence the name to refer only to its current usage but
> provide scope for future (as yet unknown) purposes..
>
> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>
>
> regards,
>
> Padraig Lennon
> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>
> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
> Ireland.
> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>
> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
>
>
> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is  
> confidential and intended solely
> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This  
> information may be subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is  
> strictly prohibited without
> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not  
> authorised to and must not
> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of  
> it, and should notify us
> immediately.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically  
> scanned for the presence
> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>
> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>
> 1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Colas Nahaboo
In reply to this post by Lennon, Padraig
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
> that this should be hidden from the user.
> Was just wondering how people approached this?

This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
yet-another-strange-word.

I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
previous site if people are used to it


--
Colas Nahaboo - http://colas.nahaboo.net

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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Raymond Lutz
I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms, etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a collaboration platform.

Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new applications.

--Raymond

Colas Nahaboo wrote:
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
[hidden email] wrote:
  
organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
that this should be hidden from the user.
Was just wondering how people approached this?
    

This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
yet-another-strange-word.

I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
previous site if people are used to it


  

-- 
---------------------------------------
Raymond Lutz
Cognisys, Inc.                
1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B             
El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
Voice 619-447-3246
http//www.cognisys.com

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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Lennon, Padraig
I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
 
 
One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use here.. k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole point of the Wiki here at work:
  • Increase knowledge within the various teams
  • Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a framework for new ones
  • Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links to all the information they need
  • We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this) called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge pyramid
    • data->information->knowledge->wisdom
    • iportal - now let me think...... :) 
 

regards,

Padraig Lennon
Senior Systems Integration Engineer

Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111

[hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

 


From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms, etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a collaboration platform.

Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new applications.

--Raymond

Colas Nahaboo wrote:
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
[hidden email] wrote:
  
organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
that this should be hidden from the user.
Was just wondering how people approached this?
    

This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
yet-another-strange-word.

I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
previous site if people are used to it


  

-- 
---------------------------------------
Raymond Lutz
Cognisys, Inc.                
1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B             
El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
Voice 619-447-3246
http//www.cognisys.com




"The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
immediately.

This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."

Pioneer Investment Management Limited.

1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.

Registered in Ireland no. 287793.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
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300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Martin Cleaver
In reply to this post by Raymond Lutz
Indeed. And many wikis, e.g. Confluence, Mindtouch, distance themselves from plain "wiki" as the basis for their platform name.

Nonetheless, the phrase wiki is moving. Increasingly it means "open collaboration" not "openly editable web pages".

M.
--
[hidden email]
http://twitter.com/mrjcleaver
+1 416-786-6752 (GMT-5)



On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Raymond Lutz <[hidden email]> wrote:
I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms, etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a collaboration platform.

Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new applications.

--Raymond


Colas Nahaboo wrote:
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
[hidden email] wrote:
  
organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
that this should be hidden from the user.
Was just wondering how people approached this?
    
This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
yet-another-strange-word.

I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
previous site if people are used to it


  

-- 
---------------------------------------
Raymond Lutz
Cognisys, Inc.                
1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B             
El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
Voice 619-447-3246
http//www.cognisys.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss



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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

KwangErn Liew
In reply to this post by Lennon, Padraig
Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
choosing the new fork-name.

But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
detaching coding and branding?


KwangErn


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Lennon, Padraig
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself
> enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
>
>
> One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use here..
> k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole point
> of the Wiki here at work:
>
> Increase knowledge within the various teams
> Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a framework
> for new ones
> Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links to
> all the information they need
> We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this)
> called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge
> pyramid
>
> data->information->knowledge->wisdom
> iportal - now let me think...... :)
>
>
>
> regards,
>
> Padraig Lennon
> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>
> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
> Ireland.
> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>
> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>
> I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since
> T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms,
> etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with
> individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki
> and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a
> collaboration platform.
>
> Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new
> applications.
>
> --Raymond
>
> Colas Nahaboo wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
> that this should be hidden from the user.
> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>
>
> This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
> wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
> the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
> invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
> yet-another-strange-word.
>
> I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
> a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
> recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
> in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
> a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
> previous site if people are used to it
>
>
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> Raymond Lutz
> Cognisys, Inc.
> 1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B
> El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
> Voice 619-447-3246
> http//www.cognisys.com
>
>
>
> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely
> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be
> subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly
> prohibited without
> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised
> to and must not
> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and
> should notify us
> immediately.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned
> for the presence
> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>
> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>
> 1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> _______________________________________________
> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
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300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Lennon, Padraig
I wasn't talking at all about the foswiki application name.. I was referring to the name given to a deployment of foswiki (or any other wiki) within an organization. By its very nature this is influenced by the context in which it is used..


Apologies if I was unclear about this.. Don't think I was though..


regards,

Padraig Lennon
Senior Systems Integration Engineer

Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111

[hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

-----Original Message-----
From: KwangErn Liew [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 21 April 2009 22:08
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
choosing the new fork-name.

But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
detaching coding and branding?


KwangErn


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Lennon, Padraig
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself
> enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
>
>
> One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use here..
> k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole point
> of the Wiki here at work:
>
> Increase knowledge within the various teams
> Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a framework
> for new ones
> Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links to
> all the information they need
> We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this)
> called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge
> pyramid
>
> data->information->knowledge->wisdom
> iportal - now let me think...... :)
>
>
>
> regards,
>
> Padraig Lennon
> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>
> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
> Ireland.
> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>
> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>
> I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since
> T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms,
> etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with
> individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki
> and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a
> collaboration platform.
>
> Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new
> applications.
>
> --Raymond
>
> Colas Nahaboo wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
> that this should be hidden from the user.
> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>
>
> This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
> wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
> the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
> invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
> yet-another-strange-word.
>
> I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
> a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
> recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
> in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
> a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
> previous site if people are used to it
>
>
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> Raymond Lutz
> Cognisys, Inc.
> 1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B
> El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
> Voice 619-447-3246
> http//www.cognisys.com
>
>
>
> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely
> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be
> subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly
> prohibited without
> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised
> to and must not
> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and
> should notify us
> immediately.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned
> for the presence
> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>
> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>
> 1 George's Quay Plaza, George's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> _______________________________________________
> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
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"The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
immediately.

This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."

Pioneer Investment Management Limited.

1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.

Registered in Ireland no. 287793.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

KwangErn Liew
It wasn't clear to me on the intention TBH. Hence my last question... ;)

If we are about to detach FW into two sets of name, i.e. code name and
marketing name, what are its implications? How will this affect FW?
That's my main point.


KwangErn



On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Lennon, Padraig
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wasn't talking at all about the foswiki application name.. I was referring to the name given to a deployment of foswiki (or any other wiki) within an organization. By its very nature this is influenced by the context in which it is used..
>
>
> Apologies if I was unclear about this.. Don't think I was though..
>
>
> regards,
>
> Padraig Lennon
> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>
> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>
> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KwangErn Liew [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 21 April 2009 22:08
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>
> Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
> choosing the new fork-name.
>
> But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
> discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
> detaching coding and branding?
>
>
> KwangErn
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Lennon, Padraig
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself
>> enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
>>
>>
>> One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use here..
>> k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole point
>> of the Wiki here at work:
>>
>> Increase knowledge within the various teams
>> Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a framework
>> for new ones
>> Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links to
>> all the information they need
>> We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this)
>> called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge
>> pyramid
>>
>> data->information->knowledge->wisdom
>> iportal - now let me think...... :)
>>
>>
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Padraig Lennon
>> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>>
>> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
>> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
>> Ireland.
>> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>>
>> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>>
>> I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since
>> T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms,
>> etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with
>> individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki
>> and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a
>> collaboration platform.
>>
>> Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new
>> applications.
>>
>> --Raymond
>>
>> Colas Nahaboo wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
>> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
>> that this should be hidden from the user.
>> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>>
>>
>> This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
>> wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
>> the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
>> invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
>> yet-another-strange-word.
>>
>> I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
>> a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
>> recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
>> in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
>> a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
>> previous site if people are used to it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Raymond Lutz
>> Cognisys, Inc.
>> 1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B
>> El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
>> Voice 619-447-3246
>> http//www.cognisys.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
>> intended solely
>> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be
>> subject to legal,
>> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly
>> prohibited without
>> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised
>> to and must not
>> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and
>> should notify us
>> immediately.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned
>> for the presence
>> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>>
>> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>>
>> 1 George's Quay Plaza, George's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>>
>> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
>> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
>> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
>> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
>> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> _______________________________________________
> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>
>
>
> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
> immediately.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>
> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>
> 1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Lennon, Padraig
I'm lost.. Did I suggest doing that? I was just looking for ideas for names for our internal deployment..

In my case foswiki is the platform but there are a number of other web apps integrated into it.. Hence my question..




regards,

Padraig Lennon
Senior Systems Integration Engineer

Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111

[hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

-----Original Message-----
From: KwangErn Liew [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 21 April 2009 22:24
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

It wasn't clear to me on the intention TBH. Hence my last question... ;)

If we are about to detach FW into two sets of name, i.e. code name and
marketing name, what are its implications? How will this affect FW?
That's my main point.


KwangErn



On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Lennon, Padraig
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wasn't talking at all about the foswiki application name.. I was referring to the name given to a deployment of foswiki (or any other wiki) within an organization. By its very nature this is influenced by the context in which it is used..
>
>
> Apologies if I was unclear about this.. Don't think I was though..
>
>
> regards,
>
> Padraig Lennon
> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>
> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>
> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KwangErn Liew [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 21 April 2009 22:08
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>
> Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
> choosing the new fork-name.
>
> But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
> discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
> detaching coding and branding?
>
>
> KwangErn
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Lennon, Padraig
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself
>> enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
>>
>>
>> One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use here..
>> k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole point
>> of the Wiki here at work:
>>
>> Increase knowledge within the various teams
>> Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a framework
>> for new ones
>> Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links to
>> all the information they need
>> We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this)
>> called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge
>> pyramid
>>
>> data->information->knowledge->wisdom
>> iportal - now let me think...... :)
>>
>>
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Padraig Lennon
>> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>>
>> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
>> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
>> Ireland.
>> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>>
>> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>>
>> I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since
>> T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms,
>> etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with
>> individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki
>> and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a
>> collaboration platform.
>>
>> Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new
>> applications.
>>
>> --Raymond
>>
>> Colas Nahaboo wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
>> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
>> that this should be hidden from the user.
>> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>>
>>
>> This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
>> wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
>> the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
>> invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
>> yet-another-strange-word.
>>
>> I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
>> a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
>> recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
>> in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
>> a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
>> previous site if people are used to it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Raymond Lutz
>> Cognisys, Inc.
>> 1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B
>> El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
>> Voice 619-447-3246
>> http//www.cognisys.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
>> intended solely
>> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be
>> subject to legal,
>> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly
>> prohibited without
>> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised
>> to and must not
>> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and
>> should notify us
>> immediately.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned
>> for the presence
>> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>>
>> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>>
>> 1 George's Quay Plaza, George's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>>
>> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
>> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
>> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
>> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
>> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> _______________________________________________
> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>
>
>
> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
> immediately.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>
> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>
> 1 George's Quay Plaza, George's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> _______________________________________________
> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>
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"The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
immediately.

This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."

Pioneer Investment Management Limited.

1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.

Registered in Ireland no. 287793.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Kenneth Lavrsen
In reply to this post by KwangErn Liew
KwangErn Liew wrote:

> Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
> choosing the new fork-name.
>
> But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
> discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
> detaching coding and branding?
>
>
> KwangErn
>
>
>  
I did not read the last postings as trying to rebrand Foswiki in the
context of our project.

There were two branches in the discussion.

1. How do you as someone introducing Foswiki BRAND it internally in the
organisation.

Just like in Motorola we use a product called Livelink but the BRAND
name is Compass. I never planned my re-branding well in Motorola and I
regret that today because we ended calling it TWiki. And now we have
upgraded to Foswiki. I even have twiki in the URL. I had realize that
there are things that are not worth changing. My solution is this. Our
wiki is limited to the product development of the products related to
the radio standard TETRA. So TETRA WIKI because how I decided to brand
it when I upgraded it to Foswiki. And how do you make the short version
of Tetra Wiki? Yes. You guessed it now right?

I think it is a good idea to plan branding of a new tool. At a
wikiseminar here in Denmark I heard a good success story where a small
bank had introduced a confluence solution for their entire Intranet and
given it a sexy internal name that fit a small bank. I cannot remember
the name now but it did not have wiki in it.

But companies are different. In Motorola the Intranet is a patch work of
many different technical solutions so for us the company Intranet is not
a specific platform. In a smaller and younger company it is very
interesting to choose Foswiki as a complete Intranet solution. And I am
sure the branding of the Foswiki installation has a lot to do with
whether the tool is a general Intranet portal solution, or a knowledge
sharing solution, or a project management tool etc.

2. The branding of Foswiki itself seen in the scope of us.
We have a brand. It is young. It is not strong yet. It takes time and it
requires effort. But no matter what the name is - the brand can be
strong. IBM is a strong brand and it is just a lousy 3 letter acronym.
But how we market and profile Foswiki is an area where work is really
needed. And I agree there that we are much more than just a wiki. I do
not think we should hide or underplay the wiki part. Being a wiki is a
strong thing. If we go to the car domain we are not a sports car. We are
not a bus. We are not a tractor. We are a MULTI PURPOSE VEHICLE. We are
a car that can be used for many purposes. Everyone looking at an MPV
knows why you would buy it and what you could use it for. I think this
is where Foswiki (and our competitors with similar products) has a huge
task ahead of us. How do we tell this story? In 30 seconds on few lines
of text and simple graphics. How do we make people that have no clue
what power is under the hood of this fantastic thing we have developed
understand all the possibilties and power it gives them.

And back to the 1. It is the same problem you have in a company. How do
you make the employees and the management understand the power they
have? This is where the branding comes in.

In the wiki seminars and other events I have participated in ONE thing
was common to those that had been successful with a wiki. They
introduced it with a clear plan to use it to solve a problem and they
put a lot of effort into proving "seed content".  And then once people
are comfortable with this and it is a success the same installation can
explode and be used for so many other things. Those wikis that has been
installed with no idea why usually died out before they started. People
that think a local company Wikipedia will materialize by itself will not
succeed. In my organization it was fixing a problem with out of date
ISO9000 procedures that was the problem we solved with (tm)wiki. Now 4.5
years later the ISO9000 system is a small fraction of our content and it
is used for so many other things. So I did that right. I just wish I had
given it a sexy name back then ;-)

Kenneth

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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

KwangErn Liew
In reply to this post by Lennon, Padraig
Nope you didn't, but Raymond and Martin's response gave me that sort
of impression. :/

Guess I should never reply to the last responder... heh :/ My bad...


KwangErn


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Lennon, Padraig
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm lost.. Did I suggest doing that? I was just looking for ideas for names for our internal deployment..
>
> In my case foswiki is the platform but there are a number of other web apps integrated into it.. Hence my question..
>
>
>
>
> regards,
>
> Padraig Lennon
> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>
> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>
> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KwangErn Liew [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 21 April 2009 22:24
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>
> It wasn't clear to me on the intention TBH. Hence my last question... ;)
>
> If we are about to detach FW into two sets of name, i.e. code name and
> marketing name, what are its implications? How will this affect FW?
> That's my main point.
>
>
> KwangErn
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Lennon, Padraig
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I wasn't talking at all about the foswiki application name.. I was referring to the name given to a deployment of foswiki (or any other wiki) within an organization. By its very nature this is influenced by the context in which it is used..
>>
>>
>> Apologies if I was unclear about this.. Don't think I was though..
>>
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Padraig Lennon
>> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>>
>> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
>> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of Ireland.
>> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>>
>> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: KwangErn Liew [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: 21 April 2009 22:08
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>>
>> Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
>> choosing the new fork-name.
>>
>> But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
>> discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
>> detaching coding and branding?
>>
>>
>> KwangErn
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Lennon, Padraig
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself
>>> enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use here..
>>> k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole point
>>> of the Wiki here at work:
>>>
>>> Increase knowledge within the various teams
>>> Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a framework
>>> for new ones
>>> Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links to
>>> all the information they need
>>> We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this)
>>> called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge
>>> pyramid
>>>
>>> data->information->knowledge->wisdom
>>> iportal - now let me think...... :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Padraig Lennon
>>> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>>>
>>> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
>>> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
>>> Ireland.
>>> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>>>
>>> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>>>
>>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>>>
>>> I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since
>>> T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms,
>>> etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system with
>>> individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying wiki
>>> and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a
>>> collaboration platform.
>>>
>>> Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new
>>> applications.
>>>
>>> --Raymond
>>>
>>> Colas Nahaboo wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
>>> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
>>> that this should be hidden from the user.
>>> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>>>
>>>
>>> This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
>>> wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
>>> the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
>>> invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
>>> yet-another-strange-word.
>>>
>>> I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
>>> a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
>>> recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
>>> in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
>>> a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
>>> previous site if people are used to it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>> Raymond Lutz
>>> Cognisys, Inc.
>>> 1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B
>>> El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
>>> Voice 619-447-3246
>>> http//www.cognisys.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
>>> intended solely
>>> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be
>>> subject to legal,
>>> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly
>>> prohibited without
>>> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised
>>> to and must not
>>> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and
>>> should notify us
>>> immediately.
>>>
>>> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned
>>> for the presence
>>> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>>>
>>> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>>>
>>> 1 George's Quay Plaza, George's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>>>
>>> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
>>> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
>>> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
>>> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
>>> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
>> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
>> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
>> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
>> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
>> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
>> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
>> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
>> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
>> immediately.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
>> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>>
>> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>>
>> 1 George's Quay Plaza, George's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>>
>> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
>> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
>> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
>> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
>> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
>> _______________________________________________
>> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> _______________________________________________
> Foswiki-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-discuss
>
>
>
>
> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely
> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without
> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not
> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and should notify us
> immediately.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned for the presence
> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>
> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>
> 1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Kenneth Lavrsen
In reply to this post by KwangErn Liew
KwangErn Liew wrote:

> It wasn't clear to me on the intention TBH. Hence my last question... ;)
>
> If we are about to detach FW into two sets of name, i.e. code name and
> marketing name, what are its implications? How will this affect FW?
> That's my main point.
>
>
> KwangErn
>
>
>  
To explain with an example may be the best.

With branding of an installation we can think of this.

Let us say that MacDonalds wanted to introduce Foswiki to build up a
place where you share knowledge about all aspects of making and selling
burgers and similar.

Calling it MacDonald Foswiki would suck major. They would probably
rebrand it. Some example could be
- MacWiki
- Professor Ronald

So they would make some tailoring of the skin with a top bar looking
like their other websites. And they would campaign about it using its
brand name.

We have the WIKITOOLNAME feature exactly to assist this so you can set
this to the brand you want to give your Foswiki.

If you look at my private wiki I called that "Kenneth Lavrsen Wiki".
Really original Huh?  Except in the web for Motion where it is called
"Motion" because for Motion it is THE WEBSITE. I do not like other have
a website AND a wiki. The wiki is the website for Motion.

Kenneth

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Re: Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki

Will Norris
In reply to this post by KwangErn Liew
On 4/21/09, KwangErn Liew <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sure is interesting to hear this _after_ going through a heck load in
> choosing the new fork-name.

not sure where you're getting that from as there were *several* people
pushing to *not* include "wiki" in the name.  i am disappointed that
we have perhaps *the most unimaginative* name, but like i said at the
beginning, i can *live* with any name that isn't "TWiki".

> But since FW's branding is heavy in the code itself, isn't this
> discussion more or less moot? Or are we going in the direction of
> detaching coding and branding?

i'd like to make sure we're building in the ability to _easily_
rebrand (unlike twiki) even tho attempts _were_ made, they were just
too cumbersome. i will be tackling that aspect of rebranding as i
develop the http://cocomint.org and http://librett.org spin-offs.

i'm not sure the state is as bad as you think (we do have %WIKINAME%,
%WIKITOOLNAME% and things like that).  at the same time, i do know
that it isn't as good as I would like it to be.  i'd like to believe
that things got at least marginally better during the TWiki -> Foswiki
transition.

will

>
>
> KwangErn
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Lennon, Padraig
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I agree... Foswiki is much more than a Wiki and IMHO does not sell itself
>> enough.. You guys have really taken off since the fork...
>>
>>
>> One of the guys actually came up with a name that we'll probably use
>> here..
>> k-portal  (for Knowledge Portal) I really like it.. That was the whole
>> point
>> of the Wiki here at work:
>>
>> Increase knowledge within the various teams
>> Make it easy to integrate existing web applications and provide a
>> framework
>> for new ones
>> Act as a map of sorts (or portal) where people can create their own links
>> to
>> all the information they need
>> We already have a sharepoint (not allowed to say what I think of this)
>> called iPortal -  fits in nicely with this.. Reminds me of the knowledge
>> pyramid
>>
>> data->information->knowledge->wisdom
>> iportal - now let me think...... :)
>>
>>
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Padraig Lennon
>> Senior Systems Integration Engineer
>>
>> Pioneer Investments Management Ltd
>> 5th Floor | 1 Georges Quay Plaza | Georges Quay  | Dublin 2 | Rep. of
>> Ireland.
>> Tel.  +353 (0)1 480.2081 | Fax. +353 (0)1 480.1111
>>
>> [hidden email] | www.pioneerinvestments.com
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Raymond Lutz [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: 21 April 2009 21:13
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Foswiki-discuss] Slightly OTT - Branding an internal Wiki
>>
>> I actually think this is a very important question, particularly since
>> T/foswiki is no long just a wiki anymore. The powerful macros, dataforms,
>> etc. allow the typical application to look more like a database system
>> with
>> individual record locking and with powerful reporting functions. Saying
>> wiki
>> and comparing to wikipedia does not express the true power of foswiki as a
>> collaboration platform.
>>
>> Don't underestimate the power of these descriptions in winning new
>> applications.
>>
>> --Raymond
>>
>> Colas Nahaboo wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Lennon, Padraig
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> organization. There are some schools of thought that the word Wiki
>> should not be used when trying to implement a Wiki framework/solution,
>> that this should be hidden from the user.
>> Was just wondering how people approached this?
>>
>>
>> This was a good question 5 years ago, but nowadays, thanks to
>> wikipedia, the name is not frightening anymore, and people at work use
>> the name "the wiki" currently. On the opposite, nowadays, trying to
>> invent a new term will just confuse people and introduce
>> yet-another-strange-word.
>>
>> I guess a non-wiki name would be OK if you can find a name that "rings
>> a bell" to everybody. For instance in our company there was a nice
>> recreation room on the 5th floor were people enjoyed impromptu chats
>> in sofa with coffee. I guess "Floor5" could have been a good name for
>> a collaborative site then :-). Or you could reuse the name of the
>> previous site if people are used to it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Raymond Lutz
>> Cognisys, Inc.
>> 1010 Old Chase Ave., Bldg B
>> El Cajon (San Diego Cty), CA 92020 USA
>> Voice 619-447-3246
>> http//www.cognisys.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and
>> intended solely
>> for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may
>> be
>> subject to legal,
>> professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly
>> prohibited without
>> our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not
>> authorised
>> to and must not
>> disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it, and
>> should notify us
>> immediately.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email has been automatically scanned
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>> of computer viruses, profanities and certain file types."
>>
>> Pioneer Investment Management Limited.
>>
>> 1 George’s Quay Plaza, George’s Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>>
>> Registered in Ireland no. 287793.
>>
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